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Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Fandom Discussion' started by Librus, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Librus

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    SPOILERS AHEAD!

    Hello Everyone! So I've seen Fantastic Beast twice now and It only seemed to get better with the second viewing. Which is pretty much amazing because it was the best Harry Potter movie for me the first time I saw it. I freaking loved this movie. I can't stress that enough. Newt was freaking awesome in a dorky, eccentric, adorable kind of way that made me fall in love with him instantly. Tina and Queenie have to much charm and personality for their own good (and I love it) and they balance each other out perfectly. And Jacob was just the perfect character to ad to the group with his "take it as it comes personality" and enthusiasm. And that's without mentioning my two favorite side plot characters; Grindelwald and Credence.

    I also really loved all of the Beasts that they shown and it was hilarious and fun watching Newt and the gang trying to catch them all. Many of the beasts themselves also had great personalities worked into the script and are utterly utterly charming. Especially when Newt is interacting with them. You can really tell that he loves his beasts and that they love him. In fact, Newt seems to get along better with animals than humans. But he himself seems to have a certain level of contempt for humanity that he made perfectly easy to understand with just one line. I'm sure we all know what that is so I'll just leave that out xD

    Grindelwald is also surprisingly relatable for a Rowling villain and I gotta tell you, I'm loving it. I understand where he's coming from in other words. I don't think that wizards should take over the world or anything. But I also don't understand why they should have to hide in the shadows. I mean, in America they don't even let magical people befriends with No-majs. That's kind of extreme America... Seriously. Get over yourselves and stop being dicks to your own people when clearly some no-maj's are totally down with not killing wizards. -points at Jacob- I'm not sure if she meant to make Grindelwald unexpectedly relatable with his desire to pull the wizarding world out of the shadows, but she did with this movie. Now that I think about it, this very well could have been why Albus was all buddy buddy with him when they were younger. lol

    Now that's I've mentioned Grindelwald and Albus in the same paragraph it's time to bring up my favorite side story! Credence and Graves/Grindelwald. I can't stress how much I loved this side story. Which is why I couldn't understand why people hated it so much at first. Well, beyond the abuse that was shown but that was a critical part of Credence's story. Yes, they could have maybe left a lot of it out. However, I feel that doing so would have made Credence's story... Less gripping and sympathetic. He is suppose to be a sympathetic character in a very bad situation. You're suppose to feel uncomfortable. You're heart is suppose to bleed for him. You're suppose to want to reach your hand through the screen and slap his mother senseless or worse. So I don't really agree with that part of the complaints.

    But that's not the biggest complaint I see. The biggest complaint I see is people calling this side plot irrelevant and a waste of time. This couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, this story answered a question that has been bothering me for a very long time and It revolves around Dumbledore's little sister Ariana Dumbledore. And that's when I realized what the problem was. That right there in all of it's glory.

    Fantastic Beasts is not as much a prequel to the movies as some might think. It is a prequel to the books and the Obscurial plotline proves this point excellently. People don't understand it because Ariana was hardly even mentioned in the movies. Her story was never told through Rita Skeeters book like it was in the books. So people who haven't read the books wouldn't understand the signification value there is in this plot. They wouldn't understand why Grindelwald would be looking for an obscurial or maybe even wonder why he knows what an obscuial is at all when so many other wizards seem to be dot dot doting. They wouldn't even understand why Rowling even put this plotline in the movie at all as it seems so separate from Newt's story.

    I certainly don't blame the movie only people for that of course. I'm just saying I can see where they are coming from. It's a real pity that the movies ignored Ariana's story in the first set of movies. It is truly something fascinating and gives you more of a glimpse into how Dumbledore became the person he is now. But I think I'm going to stop it here for now before I annoy you all into your graves with my never ending wall of nerdism. I will, of course, probably bring up more stuff as I think about it. But I figured we all needed a safe place to talk about this movie where we can be as spoilertastic as we want to be. Here you go nerds! <3
     
    #1 Librus, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  2. Librus

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    Dudes, I just realized something awesome. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them was published by Obscurus Books. I feel a fan theory coming on!

    Edit: This is why this is fan theory worthy. "Credence reportedly becomes a "notable" character within the Harry Potter Universe."
     
    #2 Librus, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
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  3. Librus

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    Also, one last thing that I forgot... Hey look! It's Queenie and she's a damn good singer 8D

     
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  4. HighSidhe

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    The thought that keeps swirling around my head after this movie is that magical schooling, or at least Hogwarts, doesn't start until age 11. Obscurials burn themselves out and die usually by age 10.

    And now I'm going to go to my corner and try not to think of what would have happened if the Dursley's had been successful in stamping the magic out of Harry.

    I did love the movie though, although my favorite aspect was probably a lot of the world-building and the magical creatures.
     
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  5. Librus

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    The funny thing about Harry is he didn't know had magical abilities to suppress. So even if the Dursleys had treated him poorly everytime any "Funny Business" happened (Which they did), he wouldn't have gotten an Obscurus. They only appear when a person knows they have magical ability and they suppress it to the point that they gain an Obscurus. So Harry was safe simply because the Dursleys refused to mention magic. He didn't know he had it so he didn't try to suppress it. That's how he was able to grow his hair back and jump on top of building before he knew he was a wizard. He saw that as a bloody godsend and not something to be feared and hated xD

    As for the school thing, the kids would be fine as long as they weren't forced to go through what the barebones' kids were force to go through or the girl from Sudan. In the end it's all about suppression. If the kid doesn't know they have magic or if their parents don't try to force them to hate and suppress their gift, they good.

    Also, I agree! The world building and critters are great 8D
     
    #5 Librus, Dec 22, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  6. HighSidhe

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    Ahh that makes sense. Otherwise, I would imagine they would get more obscurials rather than less with the splitting away from muggles and hiding themselves. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Could have done without the mating dance, but otherwise I adored his interactions with them. And the plotline with Grindelwald was interesting and more than a little creepy and I hope they find Graves, since I assume he actually exists.
     
  7. Librus

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    Yeah, JK went into more detail in an interview so I’m not surprised you missed. It wasn’t made very clear in the movie sadly. I’m glad she clarified on it more though! It’s really helping me explain Credence better. Good ol’ JK. Always giving us the information we need when it comes to her world <3

    I thought the mating dance was hilarious in a very awkward way. It could have been left out but it really shows Newt’s devotion to his citters, his shameless awkwardness and his deep knowledge. I love it for that if nothing else. He’s such a fun character. I freaking love all of the characters in this movie though.

    I also assume that Graves actually exist too. He has like ancestors and stuff so I’m sure it’s a matter of Polyjuice potion. We just never see the real Graves. I really hope he comes back in later movies because I really enjoyed Colin in this movie. He was freaking excellent and I hate to say it, but I was disappointed when he turned out to be Grindelwald. I love it but at the same time I’m just like “COLIN WAS SO GOOD! –sobs forever-“! And yeah, I totally agree that his scenes were great and a little creepy at times
     
  8. Octi

    Octi The Helpful Octopus
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    FUN FACT, apparently there's contradiction between the directors and JK over the Graves thing. The director confirmed that Grindelwald used a Polyjuice Potion, which means Graves does exist somewhere.

    ... Except then JK Rowling confirmed just a couple of days ago on her new website that he used Transfiguration and that Graves DOESN'T exist. >_>

    So ... yeah. Awkward. LOL!
     
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  9. Ophelia

    Ophelia a commie DC fan dreaming of a guy called George

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    OMG I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS DISAPPOINTED WHEN COLIN LEFT

    i mean no offence to Johnny Depp, but Colin portrayed everything awesomely from Gellert's act to his relationship with Credence and just....

    i always knew Colin was great, man

    loved the movie so much, happiest movie of the year, with a great balance between humour and some mature themes, Jacob is best character, EVERYTHING WAS AWESOME , like the only problems i found with the movie was hella minor


    ahhhhhhhh what a great story

    ALSO ALSO DID U SEE THE EASTER EGGS DID U SEE
     
  10. Thalia

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    Wait, so he doesn't exist AT ALL? That doesn't quite make sense to me. I mean, you can't just walk into a gov't building and say "hello, I'm your newest high-ranking official", that would take far too many obliviations? (Is that even a word?????) to manage it. The director's idea seems more likely to me. Aaaaand I LOVE Colin, he was perfect, and I wanna see him un another FB film!!!!
     
  11. Librus

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    Ooh, interesting update from Rowling. You know when Grindelwald was talking about seeing shit in the future? He is apparently both a liar and a seer. So Grindelwald as a seer is confirmed! Wow, is it just me or did this guy just get a little scarier? It also explains how he knew Voldie would be coming after him for the Elder Wand. He was all like "It's about freaking time!" in his jail cell. lol

    And gods damn it! That means no more Colin... Dx Why Fantastic Beasts!? WHY!?
     
    #11 Librus, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  12. Thalia

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    Oh he's a seer now? Ooooookaaayyyyy... I'm sad we won't see Colin anymore, he was amazing! I found him more intimidating than real/Johnny Depp Grindelwald.
     
  13. Librus

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    To be fair, it was hinted at in both Fantastic Beasts and Harry Potter. Plus, we honestly don't know much about Grindelwald so learning that he has a special ability really isn't much of a shock for me. I'm actually not surprised at all that Rowling announced he was a seer. Just that it took her so bloody long xD
     
  14. Thalia

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    No, no, no, it's perfectly fine in this particular case. The only things we did know about Grindelwald from the canon were based on memories of unreliable narrators. it makes sense for G. to be a seer.

    Okay, I decided to delete the rest of this rambling mess, so that I don't get misunderstood... xD

    As a side note, what about Queenie's ability? During the HP books, it was heavily implied that Legilimency is something that is learned; I personally haven't given it much thought prior to watching Fantastic Beasts, so I was under the impression that it required an incantation; remember how Snape uses an incantation/his wand to enter Harry's mind & I just thought that somebody as powerful as Voldemort used non-verbal magic or something; I mean he could fly o_O again, it was one of the things that I didn't care about/think about. So, I've been wondering if Queenie's ability is so rare that it's never mentioned anywhere (Voldemort is generally referred to as the most accomplished Legilimens if I remember correctly, although he obviously learned it, just like Dumbledore). Maybe it's similar to Metamorphmagi. I highly doubt that Harry & co. would ever learn about them if it hadn't been for Tonks, who herself claims that they are very very rare. And maybe natural Legilimens do exist in HP world but Harry just never met one. After all, the first thing Newt said to Queenie was "oh, you're a Legilimens" and he didn't ask where here wand was and didn't seem surprised at all. So maybe they did exist in HP world, but due to Harry's limited perspective we never got to see them. Lbr, 17 is still very young and Harry was raised in a Muggle household and he only read when he had to xD It could easily be that Hermione for example knew of natural-born Legilimens, as she read about them, but never mentioned them, because well why would she? What do you think?

    Just to be clear, when I say HP world etc. I refer to HP books, British wizarding world, the trio etc.
     
  15. Librus

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    I honestly think you're right about Harry not looking into it because it didn't really relate to him. I mean, he learned about this through Dumbledore who said he had to be trained to defend against it. But he never said that all witches and wizards had to be trained. He just mentioned Harry in that statement because Harry didn't have the natural ability like Queenie does. Also, we never actually see or learn about Voldemort taking lessons on the subject. All we know is he has this ability so he could also be a natural. So the statement that he is the most powerful could be completely legit. I also agree that Hermione wouldn't have found it very important at the time if she did read anything about the ability. She tends to keep her mind on what's relevant even though she does retain a lot of information. I can't really think of a time when it would have been relevant to bring it up with the exception of when Harry was being trained but he was already getting all of that info from Snape. So, just like transfiguration is the lesser form of Metamorphmagi in feature changing, there could be both natural and learned Legilimens.

    Also, Grindelwald's seer ability seems to be uniquely strong too. If I remember correctly Trewlany couldn't remember her prophecies and she only had prophecies. Grindelwald can remember his stuff and he has visions. Which leads me to believe that all magical talents can be learned but some are more powerful and some are natural gifts. Trewlany was a natural seer, but she was weak in comparison to Grindelwald. Some aspects of divination can be learned as well which further proves my point. I mean, Grindelwald was so good at transfiguration that he completely changed everything about himself to be another person which is a talent reserved for Metamorphmagi for the most part.
     
  16. Thalia

    Thalia Scratilicious

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    The books would've been completely different written from Hermione's perspective. I assume her interior monologue would immediately provide us with half a dozen definitions of each new term, while Harry was like "Legi-what?" xD of course nobody lists absolutely everything they know at any given time, it wouldn't have made sense for Hermione either, but seeing things from her perspective would've been interesting (but that's what we're here for, right xD). Not to mention other, adult witches and wizards, who'd definitely know much more than Harry.

    I'm still not sure about Voldemort. Snape and Narcissa managed to fool him and well, based on what we know about him, he could easily have taught himself Legilimency. Again, we only see young Voldemort from memories (his own, Dumbledore's and Slughorn's) and if he were really a natural-born Legilimens, they he could've read Slug's mind, without asking questions about horcruxes. I dunno, either could be true and I just never considered Legilimency as interesting as other stuff. I don't care about Voldemort either xD

    Yes, that's right, Trelawney had only made two real prophesies and she was in trance and didn't remember anything. The rest was just blabbering and playing pretense xD although Dumbledore did point out that Trelawney's grandmother was a gifted seer, so maybe she was similar to Grindelwald. Again, limited perspective. The only seer Harry meets is Trelawney and she isn't very good at it xD and similar to Tonks, if they had a person of McGonagall's competence teaching Divination, it would've been a completely different thing. I agree, he's a very competent wizard, generally. I wonder what his visions look like... maybe we'll learn more about them in new films. And yes, his ability to transfigure his body are impressive, no wonder Dumbledore found his equal in him.

    I guess we can conclude that all magical abilities can be taught. but natural-born practitioners are more powerful (Legilimency, transfiguration/Animagi vs. Metamorphmagi, seers vs. a witch/wizard who worked hard on their divination skills xD). I wonder what other bits & pieces of information we'll learn from JKR before the second movie's released.