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Pandora Revamp: Fantasyland Brainstorming & Development

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rani, May 17, 2018.

  1. Rani

    Rani MODgician
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    Hi everyone! So, I've been drafting together some starter ideas for Fantasyland in Pandora's upcoming revamp! If you need a reminder on wtf I'm talking about, check out that discussion over here. And I'd love to get the community's feedback, thoughts, and ideas to pull this all together. I've compiled my thoughts below, and then follow up the end with some end notes. So yeah, give this a read and let us know what you want to see.

    Other Brainstorming Threads

    Overview

    Fantasyland is a large sprawling area that takes up the southern portion of the box. It is bordered to the northwest by Modernland and to the northeast by Apocalypseland. It is a land right out of a fantasy novel with grand and gorgeous landscapes, stretching out as far as the eye can see. Magic is a fairly common staple in most corners of Fantasyland, though it's natural density does vary by region. Some areas are high in unnatural magical phenomenon and fantasy creatures, while others are far more grounded in reality (well, as far as anything in Pandora can be), where magic is an increasingly rare sight.

    Fantasyland has the largest coastline in Pandora, and will have plenty of islands, some charted, many uncharted. And with Pandora's fluctuating nature, new islands may appear while old ones vanish, always keeping that sense of exploration and discovery alive. The landscape has all sorts of geographical areas, ranging from snow fields to volcanos to impossible cliffs, or even floating cities and towns or islands within the sea of clouds. Like every other part of Pandora, the geography seems jumbled, as if it doesn't quite fit together right, and an ever-burning lava field may exist next to a snow field and somehow it just works.

    One very important feature are magical crystal fields that are scattered across the land. These serve as a mineable source of Magitech cores that can be exported to some other areas of Pandora (pending balance decisions, of course). They are an extremely valuable resource in Fantasyland as well. These Crystal Fields also serve as magic and technology negation zones (meaning that even characters will be unable to use their personal magic or tech) due to the incredibly high magical density levels in these fields. They disrupt all other types of magic or technological power sources.

    Many towns and villages dot the landscape, with a few larger cities mixed in as well. Many of the cities are independent city-states, managing their own affairs and sometimes the affairs of the smaller villages in their regions. However, there is one large nation to the north that tries to encroach upon the freedoms of the smaller towns and villages. They come from a low magic region, and instead has turned to use the of Magitech to arm themselves.

    As for the technology, the exact level of technology varies from community to community, though they can be anywhere from medieval to early steam or sometimes magitech. Magitech and early steam, however, are unlikely to be found in tiny villages or towns. How much a community relies on magic or incorporates it as a part of their daily lives also varies from place to place.

    Cascade Bay

    The Cascade Bay we all know and love has been built up in Pandora's revamp. What was once a tiny island town is now a sprawling city and the central hub of Fantasyland. Like the original Cascade Bay, it borrows a somewhat east Asian aesthetic. Much of the city is located on a cliff-side, but a maze of docks criss-cross in layers on top of each other, creating a network of streets and buildings, connecting various small islands that dot the coast, allowing the city to sprawl out above the water.

    Overall, Cascade Bay is designed to be a fairly nice city and, as long as you stick to the upper docks or cliffside, a fairly safe one. However, the lower docks can be a hazard on the best of nights, and a district of slums are growing out of them.

    The government of Cascade Bay is slightly different from the original one. There will still be a Governor, however Guilds have a powerful role in the city and high-ranking guild members are the ones able to vote on laws and other political changes (the original Cascade Bay had the citizens voting directly on laws). The larger the guild, the more influence they have.

    Regional Balance

    Just like every other region within the box, Pandora has a tendency to auto-correct the region to make sure it does not break too far from its fantasy motif. While individual characters and their personal equipment or skills are rarely impacted by the balance, there are a few things that are:
    • Any technology that runs on something more advanced than steam technology will gradually break down once they enter Fantasyland. This includes vehicles. Pit-stops up to 8 hours are usually okay, but any longer than that and the vehicle may no longer function. (NEED TO FIND A BETTER WAY TO WORD THIS. But basically, characters don't have to worry about personal equipment unless they start trying to mass distribute OR if they have big vehicles or something)
    • Cellular signals, radio signals, satellite signals, and other such wireless networks will be unable to send or receive within Fantasyland.

    Questions & Notes

    1. We need a better name than "Fantasyland", which is totally a placeholder. Any suggestions? Similarly, does anybody want to change/alter the name of Cascade Bay now that it's at big city status? For example, Pandora Town might be renamed to "Pandopolis" (while the old timers stubbornly call it Pandora Town), and the Horizon/Morhall merger might be renamed to "Mor Halls of Horizon".

    2. I'm focusing Fantasyland mainly around the idea of independent city-states rather than lots of nations and Kingdoms and stuff. However, I definitely want to toss in that "evil tech-based empire" sort of thing, since that's such a common trope in fantasy fiction. In this case, they rely mostly on Magitech. But if you guys have ideas for other sorts of distinct kingdoms/nations/what not, let me know! One thing we definitely want to do with this (and it was suggested by you guys from the first discussion thread too) is make room for a variety of different types of governments and stuff, that might be more shady than others. I definitely want to see some kind of NPC King or Queen or Emperor or what not in Fantasyland as well. Cascade Bay, however, will remain an independent city-state and be doing it's own thing.

    3. One of the big things from the first discussion thread was the idea of anti-magic and anti-tech regions, that would force characters to adapt to that. But we didn't want to cover the entire zone or even large chunks of it. The concern with making it small/optional was that there wouldn't be a good reason for characters to go there. SO, I propose these super, duper important crystal harvesting operations where the crystals are so super, duper magical that they disrupt all magic/tech in the area and basically create these anti-magic and anti-tech regions. And they can have towns and such in those regions as well, since somebody has to handle the mining operations. They'll also be areas that people/organizations can fight for control of, since magitech is super valuable and can do cool stuff, but is totally useless without a steady supply of cores.

    4. Any other ideas for Regional Balance adjustments?

    5. What other stuff do you want to see here?

    Location Submissions

    Please use the following form to submit a location for fantasy land! This can be a town, city, region, landmark, landscape, hamlet, kingdom, etc. At this early stage, I don't guarantee that everything submitted will be approved and make it into the final version. Though as long as it doesn't go completely against the aesthetic/feel of fantasy land, it will probably be fine.

    This form is for short descriptions (100 words or less). If you need more space than that, then talk to me about doing a more thorough writeup (which will probably be an encyclopedia article) in addition to the short submission.

    At this time, we are not looking for locations within random towns/cities OTHER than the Hub City of Cascade Bay! Any locations at the town/city level or higher outside of Cascade Bay are fine!

    Code:
    [b]Location Title:[/b] What's it called?
    [b]Location Description:[/b] SHORT!  Must be 100 words or less.
    [b]Location Requirements:[/b] i.e. If this were to be placed on a map, are there any considerations as to where it should be placed?  Near another particular location?  Along the water?  On an island?  etc.  If it doesn't matter and can go anywhere, you can leave this blank!
    [b]Reference Image:[/b] Optional

    Writeups

    Please let me know if anybody wants to help with writeups for this thing! Or if you have a cool idea and are willing to submit a short writeup for it. We'll definitely be looking for help in that area.

    Suggestions for Far!

    Compiling everything with bullet points for my own sanity. Please let me know if I missed something!
    Click to Show!
     
    #1 Rani, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  2. Lanni

    Lanni Moderator
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    So two things I guess!

    1) I think this has been asked before but: what about vehicles that are magical in nature? Ghost Rider's bike comes to mind. And if vehicles run on magi-tech anyway.... why is it they suddenly don't work? If the argument is that all the magi-crystals disrupt them that's cool! Electricity works the same way on machinery. But that would mean vehicles only work in certain areas, like you stated, right? The rest they would and should work fine if we maintain that logic.

    2) My instant concern with the guilds is that.... no one joins them. Cause guilds are kinda... seen as boring or restrictive (cause people think of guilds as medieval based stuff that... little to no one buys in Pandora). I feel like this is the same problem with Horizon: where guilds have alot of power already. There are maybe a few people who have joined, but ultimately people like making their own businesses and operating independently from the main group.

    So maybe we could create a plot after the shake up where these groups take over these businesses? Make it so you have to join a guild if you run a business in the city maybe? Like: if a player in Cascade Bay opens a pub, they have to pay a tax or join the Pub/Restaurant Guild cause that guild has come together and has taken over that section of business. If you open a hotel on the Bay, that's the Hotel Guild.

    That could be the start of that super evil magical gem corporation!!!!! Maybe instead of a corporation its a Guild of Miners? And they have taken over the industry, and in some ways the city itself! ehhh????

    Also for a name: how about Magi-Land? Since Magi-gems and the source of magi-tech comes from this area, seems fitting to call it after its foundation-source of income right?

    That's all I got! It's looking good so far, Rani ;)
     
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  3. GhostOfHalloweenPast

    GhostOfHalloweenPast a dragonfly on their way into the sky

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    Heya!
    This looks great so far, and I have some questions/commments. ^-^

    1) Would you count supernatural beings like demons into this land - since they use magic, and a lot of it? Are they some kind of 'plague' that the people fear, no matter how morally good they actually are? Or would they be counted into an entirely different region? Could it be possible for such beings - mostly 'demons' - to have their own city-state there?

    2) What about Cascade Harbour, suggesting it's grown bigger now? Or Cascade Coast?

    3) I volunteer to create write-ups! Both of the things created here or my own.
     
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  4. Twist

    Twist Your dish of T

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    Simple question: are the location suggestions posted in that brainstorming still carrying over to this idea, or do they need to be restated? Or are we not at the 'different city states' and their formation yet? XD
     
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  5. Nessa

    Nessa Player

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    Aaaaand here I am to be annoying about Magic again xD No no, but I seriously appreciate all of the hard work that's going into this revamp to make to work and have everyone be as happy as possible with it. Hookay, so here we go, with you questions, from the top

    1) Names: I mean, like the obvious choice would be like, 'Fantasia' or something. I mean, like, it keeps the genre and theme of this particular area in focus, while still sounding like an actual place name -- one that would also fit in well with the fantasy setting of the area I might add. Some other options going along these same lines include: Imaginaria (from Imaginary), Illusia (from Illusory), or -- my favorite -- Chimeria (from Chimerical, a word meaning imaginary or fanciful. Also related to the mythological Chimera, which suits Pandora and it's patchwork qualities really well)

    Edit: Just remembered this word, and my inner Tolkien Nerd is kicking herself for not thinking of it earlier, but anther great name for fantasy-land could be Mythopoeia

    2) As far as your evil empire wanting to expand it's reach across fantasy-land goes, I believe I remember Dharke mentioning that he wanted to see a Roman-eque type city or region and...well this would work really well for that?! I mean like Magi-tech sort of steam/clock-punky romans? That'd be a *really* cool idea.

    I also, personally, would really just love to see an area that was your classic, High Fantasy, Medieval European inspired, Tolkieneque type setting. We have plenty of characters from worlds like these, but we've seen very little in the way of this sort of thing setting wise. I'm talking a low-tech setting with High Spired Towers and White Walled Cities and just...that whole, legendary, epic feel. Please can we get this?

    3) Okay, so I guess this counts as both a response to your idea for the crystal fields and your request for thoughts on other regional based adjustments? First off I just want to say that the crystal fields idea is really cool. My only thing is, I feel like there is a missed opportunity here for some interesting magic vs. tech stuff if you just have places that limit both things. Some areas that limit only Technology scattered throughout fantasy-land and that do actually effect characters and their capabilities on an individual level (and places that limit only magic in other regions) could make for some cool plotting, I feel. These limits can be intrinsic to the land, or they can be law based.

    For instance: say some of the city-states don't allow characters past their gates without turning over any weapons over a certain tech level? Because there is an unfair advantage there if you've got a guy with a blaster gun or a lightsaber and everyone else has swords. It's unsafe for the public at large to just let these visitors run willy-nilly through your town with these crazy weapons! Talk about setting up a perfect opportunity for hit-and-run carnage xD So yeah, basically I'm saying laws like this would make sense on an in-universe level too. They would also provide opportunity for some fun threads, like maybe smuggling weapons in past the guards noses and things like that. Could be cool, is all I'm saying.

    5) I've said it in the original brainstorming thread, I've said it in the location suggestion thread, and I'll say it again here: Faerie. I'd love to see a Faerie realm. But even beyond that, I'd love to explore more of the *other* realms and dimensions within the box as well, such as the Dreamworld and the Otherwold that we already have. Piper and I already have a plot going with the Mages Guild wherein we're all trying to map out and build roads connecting these other dimensions, making them easier to explore, and since it's kind of coinciding with the revamp a bit, maybe a couple of new Extra-dimensional worlds can pop up within Pandora's borders? Fantasy land would be an ideal place for areas to exist where one can just...accidentally slip between these other realms too. Just imagine it, walking along one morning and accidentally stumbling into a Fairy ring? Well, oops, looks like you're somewhere *completely different* now! good luck finding your way back! Really, what's more fantastical than something like that?! It could make for some really cool threads, plus stir up interest in a sadly underused idea in Pandora's lore.

    I'm totally willing to do write-ups by the way, both for my own ideas and anyone else's 8D
     
    #5 Nessa, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  6. Rani

    Rani MODgician
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    Thanks for the replies, everyone! There is a ton to go through, and I'm kind of compiling a bunch of notes of the suggestions and such. I've updated the first post with them already!

    Here are some specific responses/question answering. If I missed anything, or there's something you want me to discuss more, let me know. But if you don't see it here, it's prooobably in my notes list in the first post (and let me know if it isn't!). But also feel free to bounce off of each other's ideas!
    You're talking about the magical crystal fields, right? Yep, anything that is magical in nature would also fail to operate! It's one of those "because magic" explanations. But the idea I'm going with is that the raw energy of all these raw crystals all clustered together is so powerful and inundates the area so much (like, these areas will probably also have super freaky landscapes too, cause that's my jam) that it just disrupts everything else. Like, any magical energy source might kind of just fizzle or even get absorbed into the natural energy of the area. But outside of these magical crystal field regions, everything would work as normal.

    Does that answer your question?

    Yeeeah, I definitely feel that. I'm thinking of the guilds more as like...a background/lore thing, to give some flavor to the city. I don't know how many there will be (and if people want to suggest some, that's cool!). Like, they'll probably be mainly populated by npcs, since the npcs are going to be getting a ginormous population growth with this revamp. But if you have the occasional person who actually wants to play within a guild, that's definitely an option.

    This is an awesome idea, and I think I'd definitely like to incorporate it. So pretty much if you have a business/service/what not in the city, you'll be a member of a guild on some level. Even if it's just kind of superficial and just to pay taxes or what not.

    I think demons will be able to fit in just about any of the regions. But yep, they'll absolutely have a place in Fantasyland! With Fantasyland being a mish-mash of things that don't totally fit together, I think you could have different varieties of demons in different areas. From the purely monstrous without human levels of intelligence, to the sort that can talk and are craft and such. But a sort of plagueland or maybe like...underground demon city would be cool.

    Uuummm, I think you should repost them here. Just so I can have everything in one place! I don't have a form or anything in this thread, but if you want to submit a blurb, definitely feel free too.

    The crystal fields were just my main idea to introduce that sort of anti-magic and anti-tech thing. I am 100% on board with there being other locations that handle that in their own way. I just wanted to create an area that would be important to characters and plots since, like the previous concern, random cities or fun to play in locales can be easily ignored. Which isn't a bad thing, of course! They'll attract people interested in playing with plots in that sort of locale. But yeah, towns or city-states with strict no magic or no tech policies are definitely welcome.

    I'm definitely on board with a Faerie Realm.

    For toeh Dreamworld and Otherworld stuff, your plots can definitely continue forward and remain a thing with the revamp. I kind of feel like it won't even need to be limited to Fantasyland, since they're like....other planes in Pandora or what not. In Modernland, especially, there's lots of room for that sort of thing. Though that's a larger conversation for a later date. But yeah, Fantasyland is definitely a natural place for these random rips or tears into these other realms to appear.

    Thank you, both! It's a big project, so we can use all the help we can get. We're not sure yet how exactly we'll be handling the writeups or how large/small we're looking for. But once we figure out what exactly we'll need to write, I'll let you guys know. :)
     
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  7. milk

    milk gently curdled
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    oh no who let me near this thread

    NAMES FOR FANTASY LAND
    let's call it ye olde land and call it a day

    so??? i'm a dork who loves latin so get ready for bad naMES THAT SOUND WEIRD

    vetus mundus: the old world
    aetas renuo: deny age
    nihilum aetas: zero time

    BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY I LEARNED
    rectum: virtue, right
    and honestly i have a very long day, and that's hilarious
    let's just call fantasyland rectum
    ???

    also doing a play on Here Be Dragons could be really cool.
    aka
    "Here be dragons" means dangerous or unexplored territories, in imitation of a medieval practice of putting illustrations of dragons, sea-monsters and other mythological creatures on uncharted areas of maps.

    Which is possibly my most favorite thing of all time.

    Anyway, that's not fun to say. Even the latin version (WHICH FAILED ME IN BEING COOL) is:
    Hc Svnt Dracones
    hic sunt dracones

    Which sounds cool to say out loud, but we gotta make something fun to type.
    wait before I move on
    Just calling it HSD; short for that latin phrase! Okay lame. Let's move on.

    So we have stuff I thought of based on that idea
    hie ignotus: unknown here
    nullius terram: no man's land
    nusquam: nowhere.
    aetas draco: dragon age [just name it after a video game i won't tell]

    lkajlsjdf okay i'm out of latin ideas that all sound dumb let's think of just cool words

    Nomala: no man's land squished together like someone got hyper with apostrophes no'ma'la could be the proper term, but people just call it Nomala
    Helbendra: HERE BE DRAGONS!!! sorry i won't drOP THIS i'm 12 and think dragons are COOL. also added letters so it didn't sound like i was making random babbling sounds or keyboard smashing
    Hicsundra: I made squishing the latin version of here be dragons sound prettier

    i should stop now okay
    -steps away from naming-

    GUILDS
    make them like unions! so like there's a business guild that maybe stretches across all of fantasy land??? so it's like a #network type dealio. Then there's like a guild security type people, etc, etc. Then maybe with time different ones pop up that are less than savory and stuff. or guilds that pop up in opposition with each other cause random conflicts (can be NPCs). Like one person doesn't like how the business guild is run, so they make a Better Business Guild™ and it gets NASTY


    TECHNOLOGY
    now here me out
    we've established that technology is sorta a no-no when it comes to either distributing it or really using it on a wide-scale within this land. But what if we have like...alternatives instead of just saying HORSE AND CARRIAGE AND SWORDS ONLY yanno?

    Because people from other lands are going to come there and see the limits, and try to work around them. Now, what sort of tech exists that doesn't actually require electricity or like...a combustion engine?

    Wind up clocks.

    I know steam-punky stuff was mentioned in the Bad Touch Empire, but I'm thinking it's not so frowned upon, but a normal sight. Like wind-up basic tools and short-distant vehicles/transports and stuff. Like it would obviously be very limited and a lot of people who are very traditional with The Old Ways will literally birth a cow at the sight of it but???? CLOCKWORK HORSE PULLING A WAGON IMAGINE HOW FRIGGIN COOL

    Also steam stuff was mentioned, and that would be super cool.

    Sorry I like thinking about rethinking basic technology.

    I just think it's important to remember the nonfantasy people who move there and see the technology limits and a challenge rather than a boundary!

    THE FIRE NATION
    ??? sorry
    anyway, i really dig the idea of them being heavily influenced by the Roman Empire. I...think we should avoid making them like the bad guys from the get-go? Maybe like...have them the most Advanced area, which could piss off other areas and cause tension. I know Cascade Bay [or...whatever it's called now. don't let me try to name it] is sorta getting injected with steroids, but I feel this place should be like the Capital. So whoever is the King/Queen resides there, and rules over everyone. Then there's like a technology fall-out the further you get from the city. Not that they're doing human cloning or anything. But like they'd be the ones with the steampunk esk stuff (as mentioned by other ppl), then like a few miles south there's like one guy who's super stoked that the wheel exists

    Or maybe like they have a king/queen, and sorta just go 'wow i rule everything i'm neat' and the rest of fantasy land is like 'hey hold up what' and it just causes this weird sorta 'we never agreed to this' sorta vibe. maybe places like cascade bay reject their rule and just go VIVA LA NO THANK YOU which causes it to be sorta a...wild-west esk type area, since it's not recognized by Royal Rule ™. Still has the same vibe and way bigger than before, but more lawless and dangerous BUT COOL and alkjs;ldjf

    i'm gonna stop now okay this is TOO LONG

    jk more stuff
    LOCATION STUFF
    yO I'm all about that Faerie Land/Feywild stuff.
    But what if, instead of normal Feywild stuff where you have to be transported there through assorted means, this place like...overlaps it? So the areas between major settlements is just straight up like that. It'd play into a BIT like what we have with Silverwood without it being just a confusing forests with the possibility of seeing a monster. Like time would flow weird, compared to places outside of it. If you know what you're doing you'd know how to navigate it, but it's like...frowned upon to go without some sort of guide or transport of some sort. People would disappear and never be seen again type deal.

    And, obviously, that means it looks super cool. I'm talking giant talking trees that could choose to curse you for not liking your face. Ancient and powerful creatures that you SHOULD NOT piss off. But??? if they like you, you may grow like a third arm that is constantly hugging you.

    Maybe if you keep to the roads [dirt/gravel roads] you're mostly safe. Just a wild Roc might fly overhead and scare the living crap out of you. That would be how most people could travel without being like...cursed my sphinx or whatever.

    Maybe it's like Feywild Light™, so if people are doing plots with otherworld type stuff, I'm not actively taking a dump on them personally????

    Write-Ups
    I obviously never shut up, so if you need extra hands i am here

    jl;kJLKSJDF I'M STOPPING NOW I'M SO SORRY
     
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  8. Nessa

    Nessa Player

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    I'm actually really loving @milk's ideas about this Faerie realm in Pandora and they kind of overlap a bit with my original thoughts. Here, let me just bring this in from the locations thread where i first really outlined the idea:

    So like...there are SPECIAL and KNOWN ways of entering Faerie, but also, like...if you just wander off too deep into the forest it's like, "OH WOW SUDDENLY A FAIRY BALL!"
     
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  9. Lanni

    Lanni Moderator
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    1) That Explains it, thank <3

    2) yaaaas. Let some be NPC groups (like: a mining guild) and maybe some people can build up over time? Guilds can be like..... political parties. Since they have the main right to vote on laws (so if you want the right to vote you gotta join a guild). And if we tell people that if they open a business in CB they automatically contribute to the guild, that equals out to everyone having a say! :) (almost like parliament maybe? Maybe the heads of guilds = parliament members?)

    And Milk yaaaas that is exactly what I'm thinking. There is a lot of potential here to have groups that are less than savory. Competing against each other. And if we can spin it like that, we should see these things have far more interest! Though I don't think having them have this same power across Fantasy Land works cause like..... It sounds like CB is its own independent city-state. There might be kingdoms and everything else stretching across the land doing their own thing. BUT but they have power there for sure.
     
  10. Nessa

    Nessa Player

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    I know, I know, I keep having things to say, but I've been thinking about this since last night, so hear me out xD This is about the tech in fantasy-land and the point @milk has brought up about nonfantasy people coming into fantasy land and try and adapt to life there and make whatever technology they have available to them work. First off, I want to say, I agree with this idea! of course anyone who comes into the area, unused to it's technological level will try and adjust, making things more livable for themselves. that's what people do. It would be a really great opening plot for fantasy land, to see something like that.

    That said, however...while I'm totally cool with steampunk areas within fantasy land, the idea of steam and clockwork tech becoming widespread enough to be a "normal sight" throught fantasy land kind of seems to defeat the purpose of the revamp by replacing the one dominating aesthetic that Pandora has pretty much grown into over time (that being the rather contemporary real-world/ urban fantasy vibe we have going on right now) with another (steampunk) rather than the patchwork jumble of things that Pandora is supposed to be. I'm trying to figure out how to say this...it's like, with all of the people and all of the worlds within Pandora not only would there be more approaches to a single problem -- like the tech limitations, where you could have like....a steampunk city-state only a few miles from a place where like, the technology runs off of some kind of elemental magic, and then like, some kind of Gothic Regency town next to that with all these gasslamps and where Enlightenment ideals and the Scientific method is just beginning to get discovered -- but there'd be differing ideas on what constitutes as a 'problem' in the first place. To the people growing up in these fantasy and historical settings the tech limitations wouldn't be as big a challenge, it would simply be life.

    Really, it would be to these non-fantasy/historical newcomers that the technological limits would be the most impactful on. And that's where things could get interesting. What if the more historical/fantasy type characters don't want these "newcomers" and "outsiders" (quotes because, lbr, literally everyone is an outsider in pandora xD) coming in and remaking this part of the world in their image, just because they're from "the future" and therefore "know better." I mean, step into the mindset from one of these more historical characters for a moment. This has nothing to do with you being some Traditional Old-timer who just can't handle the idea of this new tech. This is about Pandora finally, finally giving you a place where you can feel at home without feeling like some ignorant cave-man because until you came to this world you've never seen a lightbulb, let alone a computer or the internet, and then what basically amounts to these future-dudes coming in as tourists and deciding they can remake and reshape the world however they want because they have the technology to do so.

    I actually think that it would be better and add more to the patchwork experience of Pandora as a whole if there were differing receptions between regions on how welcoming they were to people from more technologically advanced societies and new technologies? Like none of this was said to hate on anyone's ideas or anything, more to build on them and add complications to them? Crack open the ideas and explore the potential plots lieing inside, is more like it! xD
     
    #10 Nessa, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  11. Tess

    Tess Player

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    This sounds generic, but I'll toss in my name idea. Instead of Fantasyland, maybe Fantasia? I know, trading a Disney ride for a Disney movie. My other idea is terrible but I'll say it anyway, Mythtaken.

    Here's my idea for making some areas temporarily non-magical: weather. Like, have a certain weather condition bring with it a state of non-magic. Rain. Heavy winds that blow it all away. Temperatures above a certain level. I favor rain, though. It could come up suddenly or be predicted by heavy clouds, the effects could vary with the heaviness of the rainfall, a tropical storm could knock out the magic for a week, etc. There could be magic users whose jobs are to predict rain, there could be sellers of nullifying umbrellas that may or may not work, there could be people who collect rainwater to make magic negating potions or use the rainwater to brew magic alcohol that lets people who might be immune to getting intoxicated (or intoxicated easily) get drunk (like Thor or Wolverine), or maybe they use the rainwater to water magical plants to remove the toxins because they're otherwise really tasty except for the whole dying thing. Every season an ooc weather report could be put out detailing when/where it rains so seers can predict it or people can play it out.
     
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  12. Idris

    Idris Player

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    I am really excited for this type of world, and I agree with Nessa that it'd be great to have it fully Fantasy-type, just like in LotR or the Hobbit.

    1) Would there be a possibility of having fantasy/magical creatures in this world? Just in the same way you'd expect wolves and so forth in say Silverwood, it'd be cool to have certain creatures roaming about this place, maybe even Siren NPC's and ranging up to dragons and right down to pixies and so forth. I think that would be really interesting to have

    2) I will help with write ups if you want! I'm really into fantasy so I'd love to help out
     
    #12 Idris, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  13. Wisdom

    Wisdom The Crazy Geek

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    Well, here I am! I promised that when the time came and you guys wanted help, I'd provide! Here's my take one everything for Fantasyland! Hope my two cents help!

    1. Hmm... For Cascade Bay - how about Porte de Cascadia? Or Port Cascade? I mean, it is still a major place located in ideal places for trading. I think PT should just become Pandora City (kind of like New York and New York City have the dynamic of having a major city being named after the area it's in.) I haven't done much Morhall stuff on Pandora, so I am not going to try to suggest a name for it - but maybe keep it still a bit shorter than four words.

    2. Okay, so the evil Magitech Empire... Get ready.

    The Gehénnam (Latin for 'hellfire') Empire is lead with an iron first. During Pandora's reformation, a corrupt political woman, Natarra and her warrior husband, Hattin, founded their own power against the Pantheon and their will. With Natarra's skills in politics and advanced magic and Hattin's practice on the battlefield and as a warrior lead for a large following of citizens who resent the Pantheon for letting havoc occur join them. As the evil empire seeks to conquer all of Fantasyland, many city-states have taken up arms, some even allying. A cold war is occurring (though some city-states and Gehénnam are engaging in small-scale battles), but something wicked is brewing, and possibly chaos could wreak havoc.


    3. I counter-propose you make certain NPC-lead city-states take up an area of Fantasyland where these crystals are hard to come by. Since a ton of fantasy characters would probably like the Starknet and Starkbook as well as some other tech, I think the borders especially to other parts of Pandora should be more advanced, but ruled by the Pantheon and out of the Empire's reach.

    4. I'd love to help. PM me here or on Discord, and I can help come up with ideas. I have a ton of ideas, so feel free!

    5. Again, PM me here or on Discord. But I would like a place on a border where the technology can be maintained for characters, and I would also maybe like a sort of Magitech version of a phone. Oh, and to maybe encourage people who want to have their character rule a city-state to first have a few roles in their city-state's government filled before even being considered to have one, unless there's a specific reason they have for not needing to meet a requirement.
     
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  14. Piper

    Piper Player

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    Well... here I am, late as always, but I have some ideas I'd like to share!

    As far as names go....

    So I've been trying to come up with a new name for fantasy land, and this is what I've got:
    Gondor
    Arcanada

    Arcanfeld (from the word Arcane)
    Mithfeld (from the word Myth)
    Dwimoria (the old english word for Illusion: Dwimor)
    Fearann Draoidheil (Scottish Gaelic for "Land of Magic")

    Could we name the fairy realm (if we get one) Evendim? It's just a really nice name!

    For Cascade Bay... eh, I personally don't think it needs a name change, and if it does I think everyone else has all the possible permutations of the name covered, unless you wanted to rename it entirely. lol LETS CALL IT TORTUGA!

    For Horizon/Morhall... do they have to keep the original names? 'Cause, at least I think this, if we changed the name entirely it might sound better? Either that or choose either one or the other. If you did go with changing it entirely though I really like the name Zerzura. I mean we already have the plains named The Elysium Fields, why not name our Horizon/Morhall mashup after a legendary oasis?

    For steampunk Rome, I agree with @milk we should avoid making them the bad guys from the get-go and I'm sure they don't view themselves as evil. That being said, any names that directly reference our steampunk roman frands as being evil might not work so well. I really like the idea of calling it The Aquila Imperium. It works really well, because the name sort of holds that majesty and strength that empires like to have associated with themselves and view themselves with, plus Rome associates itself with the eagle and all. Ohhh! they could even have a clockwork eagle as their symbol!

    Speaking of Steampunk Rome, actually, I have something I just want clarified real quick?
    As far as I was aware this whole revamp of Pandora was just happening overnight, much like the restructuring of Pandora town was, when we first got all the cool new sections of the city. It was all happening so suddenly and instantaneously, and there wouldn't really be much time for a place like Steampunk Rome to gain a backstory like the one that @Wisdom was suggesting. As far as I was picturing it, Pandora would just be pulling in like....a Steampunk Roman Empire from one universe or another, and Romans...being Romans, they just took one look around and were like 'So umm...you want to conquer some shit?' 'Sure let's conquer some shit' and so verily did they begin to conquer some shit. If I'm wrong or missing something please let me know?

    ANYWAY! I do have some areas I would like to suggest for this place... as well as some questions. Like we know for sure Cascade Bay is gonna be in Fantasy land and Misty Hollow, being more urban fantasy, is gonna probably gonna be in the more modern section, but where are we putting Horizon/Morhall? Is it gonna be in apocalyptic land and focus more on it's more solar punk and mad max type aspect? I mean it's fine if it is, but if that's the case then I'd really like to see a more desert-y/Arabian nights/Prince of Persia type city state or region in fantasy land, which if you don't want to use the name I suggested for Horizon/Morhall for that area we could use it for this place! 8D

    I also have some ideas for an elvish type city in Fantasy land, because you always need an elf type city in your fantasy area, right? I kinda have a vision of one where it sits atop a cliff over looking the sea and it boarders, on it's most northern end, a forest-y area. maybe they could even be trading partners with Cascade bay?
     
    #14 Piper, May 20, 2018
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  15. Nessa

    Nessa Player

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    302
    Oh, I really love @Tess's idea for storms of anti-magic rain blowing through that knocks out character's magical ability. To build on top of that we could also have like, some kind of storms blowing in from the same area (I dono, maybe from Faerie or something like that. I'm sure there's all kinds of weird weather in Faerie) that disrupt tech in the same manner as well? Just pictureing some kind of anti-tech fog or mist that just kind of floats in and if you're walking around with anything high-tech while its around it'll start breaking down and ageing, rusting or whatever, super fast

    Also, I was just kind of playing with this idea yesterday, but how does an archipelago of lost islands sound? You know, like all of those legandary sunken lands and islands from myth and legend and literature? Atlantis, Númenor, Ys, Llys Helig, those kinds of places? What if instead of being sunken, Pandora kind of...took them? :D
     
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  16. milk

    milk gently curdled
    Plots & Events Division

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    man these are all SUCH COOL IDEAS
    but okay jumping off of @Tess ' idea of anti-magic rain and @Nessa 's anti-magic fog...like what if it's caused by those Crystals that get harvested? Like it's something to do with the chaotic type magic that just exists in the forests maybe, mixed with the nature of the crystals, creates this sorta like...super anti-magic rain. So basically the effect of being in a Crystal field [ie nullifying magic and technology] would be wide-spread.

    Like we mentioned that high tech devices just don't do so hot in this neck of the woods; but what if the rain causes an accelerated version of it? Like it's just something that's already in the air. Tech just sorta breaks down with time if it's not fitting well with the restrictions of the fantasy area. But like if your crap is outside/exposed to the weather at all and it's not like GOOD WITH THE ENVIRONMENT then the environment straight up eats it. Of course we'd have ways around it. Like keeping tech locked away in something air-tight or just like...in a box under a bed to slow down the process. And just straight-up exposure would cause the bad effects.

    and since this is fantasy land maybe we could do something where instead of just predicting the weather (which would also be a sorta cool job with how the tech is stuck!!!) we could do stuff with the area trying to "Appease the Gods" for good weather, so their lives aren't crapped on by angry sky water. So maybe there's like statues made, ceremonies held, etc. I mean this obviously wouldn't just be born over night since the Pandora Babes [aka gods] literally just go 'lol mix it up bitch' and suddenly everything is different. It'd take time for these customs to develop and hell - maybe they even actually work...? Like the Patheons like the idea of a festival in their honor or statues of vague forms that people think might be them or something, so they ease up on the rain.
     
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  17. theweasleyboys

    theweasleyboys Silly Denizen of the Sewer Tunnels

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    Not sure if anything's set in stone just yet...or if anyone's keeping records of all the ideas here...but mmmight there be a possibility of sending letters via ravens?? because the usual nifty people who had really fast delivery were dropped/vanished, so that's why I'm asking TY
     
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  18. Rani

    Rani MODgician
    Plots & Events Division Technical Division

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    omg, I should have replied to this thing sooner. Sorry, it just took me a while to get through these 11 posts and compile all my thoughts. XD

    I've added updates notes to the first post! I left off name suggestions for non-fantasy land stuff, since those will be getting their own brainstorming threads in the near future.

    New Location Submission Form

    I've added a Location Submission form to the first post. If you guys have ideas for specific locations you want to see pop up, and don't need further brainstorming/expanding on them, you can use that to submit them in this thread right now! This will help us flesh out the world. :)

    Guilds!

    Okay! So I do love the idea of guilds that have representation over a very large area. But yeah, I'm thinking we'd have two different sorts we'd be talking about here. Independent guilds that are not a part of Cascade Bay's government and structure, and then the Cascade Bay-specific guilds that hold things like voting power and collect taxes and help make the city run smoothly (or try to, cause yeah, plots to cover guild-driven drama would be very cool).

    We should probably call one of those something other than Guilds, to not mix them up.

    But for independent guilds, I do love the idea of having like....a Hunters Guild or Adventurers Guild or Mages Guild (or other sorts) that aren't affiliated with any one city-state or kingdom and have outposts/representatives in all different communities and stuff. They provide jobs to their members, take jobs from the communities, and are doing their own guild-specific business. Gives guild members a place to stop for resources when they're traveling. Hell, a Hunters Guild and Adventurers guild especially could probably even cross into other regions of Pandora.

    Technology!

    So, tech in Fantasy Land is definitely going to be patchwork. Different areas will have different levels of technology. That's just one of the things we're trying to drive forward with this revamp, is Pandora's patchwork nature. Where things don't need to necessarily make sense and everything is sort of just jumbled together. So, there won't be any like....tech that is common throughout the entirety of fantasy land. Though I imagine we'll have airships going from place to place, and certain conveniences in certain areas. So, there's room for them, but it also isn't the rule and will vary from place to place.

    Like, I'm imagining the Cable Cars or stuff like that, cause those are wonderful and handy if we want to give people a nice transport through a mountainous area or something. But we can also have other areas where people are gonna have to rough it and make it up on foot. Or maybe there's some cool magical teleportation circle that'd hidden away somewhere.

    Unfortunately, we won't be making Starknet or any kind of cellular technology available in fantasy land. But I do think that it would be cool to have something in place to help speed up long distance communication. Like, maybe communication hubs in Cascade Bay where you can check in for messages or letters or what not. Or even a guild that handles transporting communications from place to place -- a postal guild!

    Also, keep in mind that fantasy land will be bordering modern land and apocalypse land. So, it won't be particularly difficult to cross over from fantasy land to somewhere that has that technology, if your character is willing to travel (either quickly via the portal system, or the longer trip on foot).

    Though I guess the biggest question here is what sort of tech do we want to see in Cascade Bay? I definitely want it to be on the lower tech end of the spectrum, but some unique/limited uses of magitech or clockwork-based stuff would be cool.

    The "Evil" Roman-Inspired Empire

    Don't worry! I'm not really planning for the Advanced Empire to be like....moustache-twirling villains or to think of themselves as evil. I was using "evil" more in a meta sense of their role as antagonists. Probably should have better clarified that. :p

    I'm kind of thinking now though that maybe a more Magitech route would be better. Magi...steam...punk? Magiclockpunk? That could open up the route for them moving aggressively to claim those special crystal areas, cause they're super, duper important to keep their empire up and running and/or to further their experiments and technology and come out with shiny new toys.

    I do like the idea of them kind of just....claiming everything as their own. Or maybe they just move in when they get wind of some tech or magical resource that they totally want to get in on before anyone else can. I think larger conflicts are something we can get into later, after the revamp happens. But I like having them available for random skirmishes over land/resources/what not at the time of the revamp.

    Faerie Land/Feywild

    So this is all really cool, and I love the idea of mixing the two. I think that the areas overlapping with the Feywild should just be specific locations in the wilderness (I can mark them out on the map whenever that happens!) instead of everywhere. But we can make some of them occur around areas that would be semi-important roads to places.

    Though following along with the weather theme that's coming up later in this reply, maybe there will be special holidays or other days of the year where that effect just covers everything outside of major settlements for a day and a night. And people who dare venture outside might find themselves wandering down strange paths.

    Anti-Tech & Anti-Magic Weather

    I am down for all of this! We could probably manage a weather schedule for each season change as well. Though I'm generally not in favor of tracking minute details like that. But since this special weather would have such a big impact, it could be good to make sure that's shared canon across everyone's threads. You know, instead of it being raining in one thread and bright and sunny in another, all on the same day, like what usually happens when comparing threads. XD

    Are we talking this anti-tech fog impacting even a character's personal technology? The gradual breakdown doesn't currently impact a character's personal tech (npcs will probably still be impacted, cause they're not as special). Only if they try to mass create/distribute stuff or have like....giant mecha robots or tanks or a spaceship or a big bus or other large vehicles like that. But that's also caused by the Pandora-set regional laws, rather then by stuff directly in the environment.

    I'd love to get feedback from others about how they feel about scheduled weather in set locations potentially impacting a character's personal tech.

    That could be interesting! So, would it be assumed that any anti-magic/tech would mean a ceremony or attempt to appease the gods failed? Or would it just be more of a cultural thing? If we do want to track when and where this weather happens at the season change, it will be easier to do if that info won't fluctuate based on player action during the season.

    Misc. Questions

    Pretty much anything you can imagine will be possible! We're not going to have a set list of creatures that are allowed or anything. As long as it fits into some fantasy setting, you're good. So, while there probably won't be killer robot armies, you could have ghosts and goblins and demons and dragons and living suits of armor and killer treasure chests or creepy reflections. Pretty much anything goes.

    So, we're going to have the governments for the five hub cities use the current rules the current towns operate under now (and we plan to have current government leaders transition into their new/upgraded cities with as little change as possible). We're not totally sure yet how we'll handle government positions or any jobs really outside of those yet. We're currently thinking of just like....having a general region-wide sign-up where you can add your character to a list with their job.

    Some cities and city-states and stuff will be strictly npc run. But we'll probably have room for other small ones to be player-run. We're just not sure yet if we'll allow any particularly large/influential ones outside of the hub cities.

    Brainstorming threads like this one will be going up for those other regions, so that will be discussed in detail there. But Horizon/Morhall is probably gonna end up in apocalypse land. Potentially as a combined thing, or maybe as two separate communities, with one of them being downgraded to location submission town.

    That's definitely possible! Tech and culture will vary from location to location, so some areas could use ravens, others might use owls, others might send messages via magic, while another town uses handy fairies.

    I do think it would be cool to have some kind of Postal Guild to help handle all of this, and make sure things get to where they need to go. Or especially to places outside of fantasy land. Maybe Pandora Town will even have some kind of communication hub where it takes in messages received from other regions and converts them into a destination-region-friendly format.

    Location Submissions!

    Those both sound super awesome! The only catch is that anything in Pandora should be original to Pandora. Inspiration and names can be taken from other things, but we're trying to avoid having stuff dropped directly from RL myths/legends/literature/media.

    But I've added a location submission form to the first post, so you guys can use that to submit a brief writeup that we'll add to the regional location guide. :)

    HOW IS THIS THING HAPPENING???

    Okay, so! There will be room to fit in some form of history for these locations. We already have a plan for what triggers the revamp and an event to kick the whole thing off. The details of that event won't be unveiled until it actually happens. Nor will the quirks behind the revamp and how we're fitting the whole thing together.

    But just know that we have decided not to have these new bajillion NPCs act like new arrivals in Pandora. We didn't think it would be fun to have a whole new universe of NPCs all freaking out on each other after being pulled into a whole new world. It would inevitably disrupt the whole "YAY, NEW STUFF TO EXPLORE" excitement for our own characters. So we're just...not dealing with that.

    Helpful People!

    Thank you both! I'm getting a better idea now of what writeups we'll probably need for this. I'm focusing primarily on the large-scale stuff that is important to know no matter where you are in fantasy land. And Cascade Bay stuff. Otherwise, everything else should just be those super short location submissions.
     
  19. GhostOfHalloweenPast

    GhostOfHalloweenPast a dragonfly on their way into the sky

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    This took me way too long to type up, I'm so sorry!

    OKAY GREAT! Then, hear me out. This is gonna be a bit lengthy, but you just hit my Special Interest™ and now you have to live with the consequences. (kidding, but it's gonna be a bit more lengthy)
    Alright, what about a demon realm? (I already named it and some of its cities/regions too, but feel free to discard those if they don't fit for whatever reason)

    Location Title: Lycos
    Location Description: The demon realm. A gigantic, cave-like dimension, where you can taste the magic in the air and everything around you is alive. Home of demons and other supernatural, though not necessarily modern, beings, who are living in one of the five cities, or wandering around the realm as vagabonds. Lycos' fauna and flora is breathtaking and unlike anything seen on earth. In some regions, trespassing as a human can be dangerous, to the point where you'd be killed on sight. Other cities are quite welcoming of non-supernaturals, even working tightly together with them.
    Location Requirements: If not in an additional realm, it needs a gigantic cave, or maybe needs to be underground like you suggested!
    Reference Image: [​IMG] and a nifty map I created

    Location Title: Mhythrocalin
    Location Description:A city-state inside Lycos, thriving on warfare and (for human standards) brutal laws. The ruling family lives in the castle that was built into the middle of the area aeons ago. Mhythrocalin's education is focused on weaponry & martial arts, languages, and battle strategy; the adopted children of the demons in charge are trained strictly and most of them kill their first prey early on already. Mhythrocalin owns the crystal mines nearby, where they mine Amethysts, Opals, Citrins, and others.
    It is advised to stay far away from this city if you're human or only half demon.

    Location Requirements: if not in the demon realm, it might need a mountain and a mine nearby.
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: Fi'llik
    Location Description: A cozy, small town, edging on not one but two forests on the northern and southern side respectively. Its architecture reminds of a European, maybe Germanic, medieval settlement close to becoming a fully-fledged city. Hosts a very successful and entirely human-inclusive school for all ages and species, with a focus on art, animal & plant care, and history & sociology. Also owns one of the most extensive libraries in the realm, making use of so-called memory orbs, which project the memory like a vision into your head upon touch. It's run by a mayor who gets elected every year.
    Location Requirements: would also need a cave or some other way to block out the sun
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: The Knakka Planes
    Location Description: A spacey region, bordering on the northern forest of Fi'llik and the eastern side of Mhythrocalin, the Knakka Planes are home to an abundance of otherworldly animals and plants. Named after a small rodent species which reminds of hamsters or chinchillas, but with colourful fur in all the shades of the rainbow, the planes consist mostly of rocky, empty space you would expect on Mars perhaps, with the occasional lake or plateau; and yet, life is blooming there. Caution is advised for people travelling through, who are unprepared for animal attacks.
    Location Requirements: N/A
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: Bru'khor
    Location Description: The southern forest of Fi'llik, host of an ancient temple and the south-west edge of the realm. Nobody is safe in these woods, for they conjure illusions to lead you astray. Only the ones with a strong will or means to protect themselves will conquer them unscathed. There are rumours that the temple deep inside the forest is still in use and that the deities of old frequent it regularly; do not venture into these woods to raise them, they will not answer kindly.
    Location Requirements: N/A
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: Hel'khor
    Location Description: Where the Bru'khor is very upfront about its intentions, this forest tries to look like the safest place you could be at. But don't be tricked by the sunny light - this forest is home to Fauns and Fae alike. These tricksters may choose to leave you alone, or mess with your head, just because they can. Other than that, the forest is known for an abundance of medical and magical herbs and flowers.
    Location Requirements: could work for the faerie realm as well!
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: Aer'vil
    Location Description: This small region borders on the Knakka Planes in the southeast, and is the home to a bird people species called Kra'vi. The landscape is filled with cold, rocky hills which the Kra'vi use to build nests. There's always a kind of strange fog wrapping everything into a white, misty blanket. Humans are considered neutral acquaintances.
    Location Requirements: if outside the realm, it would need some mountains.
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: River Of Ink
    Location Description: A river of deeply black liquid, crossing through the entire realm. Only deities and deity-like being are able to cross or touch the river; everyone else will die as the liquid poisons the weak vessel and causes a horribly painful death. Deities can use the liquid for potions and other tasks, but the main use is based on the fact that it empowers any vessel - if the vessel is too weak, they will wither away, is it strong enough though, it might grant other, powerful abilities or cause a temple in its way to be flooded with raw magic.
    Location Requirements: N/A
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    (Cherr'ik and Gly'f can be left out or be filled with anything you might need a place for, but I didn't forget to mention them, even though they're on the map!)

    now, the locations outside the realm

    Location Title: placeholder
    Location Description: A wide grotto near Cascade Bay (or however it's called after the upshake!) and part of the immensely long tunnel-system inside the cliffs, the placeholder is reachable only by diving and gives a home to many merfolks, including sirens, watershifters, or even seals and dolphins. In one of the bigger cave-rooms, the moon can shine through the ceiling, illuminating the water and perhaps enchanting it in unknown, beautiful ways.
    Location Requirements: needs to be part of the Shimmering Sea
    Reference Image: [​IMG]

    Location Title: placeholder
    Location Description: Beware of the dragons who live here, always sleeping, but always watching. They're hoarding whatever they can get their claws on, and they will not let you take even one piece with you. If you manage to avoid the dragons though, this mountain can be the perfect place to hide or even live, if that's your thing.
    Location Requirements: a mountain, perhaps?
    Reference Image: [​IMG]


    Okay, I will stop now with the submissions :'3
    But all in all I'm mostly on board with the rest of the things said here!
     
    theweasleyboys and Rani like this.
  20. Linnie

    Linnie Player

    Posts:
    48
    Gender:
    female
    Occupation:
    studying
    Location:
    somewhere you probably don't know
    Location Title: Dreamland
    Location Description: Dreamland emerges in Fantasyland with glittering gates and domes. The inside is separated into different parts that featured a different fantastical theme: magical elvish forest, medieval castle and garden, princesses' theme part, part inspired by Asian culture, Greek, Spanish, English magical culture, etc. Games are in abundance although its own safety has much to be desired.
    Location Requirements: It is located a little away from the city.
     
    theweasleyboys likes this.